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Romanian puts face on immigrant care issues

Last post 12-11-2007, 02:19 PM by Prism. 14 replies.
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  •  12-10-2007, 09:15 AM 69228

    Romanian puts face on immigrant care issues

    Dumitru Nistorescu, a Romanian worker who came to Detroit seven years ago to begin a new life, is alone in his Rochester hospital room, paralyzed and unable to breathe on his own.

    He is miles from the underground network of friends he kept as an undocumented immigrant, living undetected on a passport that expired two years ago.

    So far, Crittenton Hospital Medical Center has paid $540,000 for his care since he was admitted Aug. 13 following a massive stroke. For more than three months, no one would take him. Not nursing homes. Not his home country.

    But today, or at the latest Saturday, Nistorescu, 53, is to go home, adding a $65,000 expense for an air ambulance from Pontiac to Bucharest.

    Hospitals all over the United States, as well as doctors and clinics serving immigrant communities, are familiar with the problems of caring for -- and paying for -- the medical treatment of undocumented immigrants.

    "All the time they come here," said Adnan Hammad, PhD, director of community health for the Arab Community Center for Economic and Social Services, which runs a large clinic in Dearborn. Many come in with serious health problems, even advanced cancer, and can't understand why ACCESS can't pay for their operations, Hammad said.

    He said he coaxes physician friends to take some of the patients and charge them reduced rates. He works with hospitals to care for the others.

    Medicare has a $1-billion budget for emergency care for undocumented immigrants through 2008. But the bulk of the funding goes to states such as California, Texas and Arizona, which have larger percentages of immigrants than Michigan, hospital officials say.

    Hospitals absorb expenses

    Crittenton applied three months ago for those funds for Nistorescu and never heard from Medicare, Marilyn Messina, director of quality outcomes for Crittenton, said Thursday. Medicare's media relations office did not return a call for comment Thursday.

    Crittenton also will attempt to get some money from the Romanian government and Nistorescu's family -- his father, who is 71, a daughter and an ex-wife -- who live in the Black Sea town of Tulcea, Messina said.

    "When all else fails, we just absorb the expense," she said.

    Federal law requires hospitals to accept all patients needing emergency care.

    "Henry Ford sees this population," said Joy Berent, senior corporate counsel at Henry Ford Health System in Detroit. "We provide the care knowing there will be no subsidies."

    Another problem is that undocumented immigrants don't want to cooperate with hospitals trying to get reimbursement by providing information for federal forms, fearing it will cause them problems, she said.

    Eventually, the costs, considered charity care, are passed on to consumers and companies as a business expense via higher insurance premiums, said Brian Peters, senior corporate vice president at the Michigan Health and Hospital Association. The Lansing organization represents 146 nonprofit hospitals.

    "It's a hidden tax we all pay," he said.

    Social worker helps with return

    Nistorescu's return to Romania was facilitated by Catherine Kroll, a licensed clinical social worker at Crittenton, who called each workday for three months trying to find a place that would take the stone worker. Stroke patients such as him typically are transferred to nursing homes, but none of the nearly 60 she contacted would take an uninsured patient, she said.

    Her first call to local immigration officials yielded only a referral to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.

    Neither agency "even was interested in taking down his name," Kroll said.

    A Homeland Security official told her to call the Romanian Consulate in Chicago.

    Kroll did, and this week she and Doina Boblea at the consulate overcame the final two hurdles: The Emergency Hospital of Bucharest-Floreascu agreed to accept Nistorescu as a patient, and the Romanian government signed the paperwork to oversee his transfer.

    Friend offers details of life

    Silvia Popovici of Detroit, a friend of Nistorescu, helped Kroll piece together his past. Kroll found out that Nistorescu was living in the United States on a passport that expired in 2005, owned two cars and had a valid Michigan driver's license.

    Nistorescu came to Detroit in 2000 on a Greyhound bus from New York City, Popovici said in a telephone interview Thursday. He stayed in a room at her mother's house in Detroit.

    He never learned English. "He went around with the rest of us," said Popovici, who also is Romanian.

    He was kind, trustworthy and a skilled carpenter and handyman who loved to fish, she said. He taught her to cook and her son how to drive, she said. He had been an artist and had elegant handwriting.

    Nistorescu had the stroke while traveling with Popovici's son to see a friend in Oakland County. The son took him to Crittenton.

    While there, Nistorescu was befriended by the staff. His physician, Dr. Namdeo Kale, visited him every day.

    A Romanian friend Nistorescu had worked with visited him once, Kroll said. Popovici also visited him on several occasions, including for Nistorescu's birthday Oct. 30.

    On their visits, they held hands, but "right now, Dumitru doesn't know who I am," she said. "It's better to know he's going home. If something happens to him, he can be buried with the Christian rituals" of his homeland, she said.

    Contact PATRICIA ANSTETT at 313-222-5021 or panstett@freepress.com.

    http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007712070388


    The only real security in life is to be very good at what you do.
  •  12-10-2007, 09:21 AM 69229 in reply to 69228

    Re: Romanian puts face on immigrant care issues

    I will write in English, in case some of our American friends will stop by this topic.

    It's not clear to me what the author is trying to portrait. Or, maybe it is clear and I don't really know how to take it.

    There is no mention of the millions of dollars LEGAL immigrants pay towards taxes every year, and most of them don't go to the hospital. In the last 10 years, I alone, have paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes and at the same time I had medical insurance, so the hospital never had to pay anything from their profits for my minimal care.

    There are studies made by both official and un-official groups, that proved that overall the benefits and costs of immigrants balance out, having a small positive effect.

    That means, immigrants pay more than they consume. As a whole.

    As a reporter, a newspaper writer, I would find it really beneficial to research a subject before trying to make a point.


    The only real security in life is to be very good at what you do.
  •  12-10-2007, 11:16 AM 69237 in reply to 69229

    Re: Romanian puts face on immigrant care issues

    Alien, I'm not sure I agree completely. Your taxes and mine pay for services rendered to individuals living legally in the US. I don't think the Congress budgeted (and don't think it should) services for anyone deciding to come and live in the US on social assistance.

    If that should happen I will strongly oppose it. We, the law-obiding bodies living in the US must help reinforcing those laws as long as we believe in them. If we didn't, then we have a serious moral problem.

  •  12-10-2007, 11:38 AM 69242 in reply to 69237

    Re: Romanian puts face on immigrant care issues

    What I said is that studies proved that overall, what is collected from immigrants (regardless if they are legal or illegal) balances out, on the positive side, what is spent for immigrants.

    What should be done is to change the law in such a way that there will be no illegal immigrants. Let the market decide if new people are needed, and, OF COURSE, filter out the bad guys.

    America is THE reference in capitalism. The capitalits concepts should apply to immigration policies as well.


    The only real security in life is to be very good at what you do.
  •  12-10-2007, 12:50 PM 69249 in reply to 69242

    Re: Romanian puts face on immigrant care issues

    Well, you're an optimist my dear. For as long as there will be holes in the system people will take advantage of them. Capitalism, in its imperfection, is only the economic component of the social contract. But there are also legal, ethical, moral, physical, territorial...etc components of a society that make up its viability. I guess, if the supply and demand curves determine that monkeys can perform cheap labor, I don't think I would like to live in the US any longer. And I seriously doubt you would too.
  •  12-10-2007, 01:08 PM 69252 in reply to 69249

    Re: Romanian puts face on immigrant care issues

    Prism:
    But there are also legal, ethical, moral, physical, territorial...etc components of a society that make up its viability.

    And greed. Like in "greed is good" motto. Or like the unwritten law that governs the American healthcare system where money comes first.

    BTW, how much does society, or better said the social system cares about maternity for example? Less than it cares for drug addicts I believe.

    This whole question of boogie "the migrant" man is one of distinct hypocrisy in a country built up by migrants.

    The infinite is in the finite of every instant. (Zen)
  •  12-10-2007, 01:19 PM 69253 in reply to 69252

    Re: Romanian puts face on immigrant care issues

    Dell:

    BTW, how much does society, or better said the social system cares about maternity for example? Less than it cares for drug addicts I believe.

    This whole question of boogie "the migrant" man is one of distinct hypocrisy in a country built up by migrants.

    Actually, no hospital in the US can turn back ANY pregnant woman and the level of care is pretty good even in the least preferred units. They may come after her for medical bills, but even this can be negotiated.

    US legislation is pretty decent with all immigrants as long as they're legally here, maybe not at the level of Germany or France but the US government doesn't turn its back on any law abiding person.

    Now regarding healthcare..why would a healthy person be penalized with a 100% tax increase (see EU) when he doesn't need healthcare ?

  •  12-10-2007, 02:04 PM 69255 in reply to 69253

    Re: Romanian puts face on immigrant care issues

    Prism:

    Now regarding healthcare..why would a healthy person be penalized with a 100% tax increase (see EU) when he doesn't need healthcare ?

    True, but then again, why hospitals change the name of a pack of Kleenex, and call it some weird name "cleaning tissues bla bla bla", and charge for it $20, when the cost is 25c?!?!

    We should look at some bigger problems than the immigrants abusing the system. And when those are solved, then we should come back and take care of those immigrants.


    The only real security in life is to be very good at what you do.
  •  12-10-2007, 04:45 PM 69277 in reply to 69253

    Re: Romanian puts face on immigrant care issues

    Prism:
    Dell:

    BTW, how much does society, or better said the social system cares about maternity for example? Less than it cares for drug addicts I believe.

    This whole question of boogie "the migrant" man is one of distinct hypocrisy in a country built up by migrants.

    Actually, no hospital in the US can turn back ANY pregnant woman and the level of care is pretty good even in the least preferred units. They may come after her for medical bills, but even this can be negotiated.

    US legislation is pretty decent with all immigrants as long as they're legally here, maybe not at the level of Germany or France but the US government doesn't turn its back on any law abiding person.

    Now regarding healthcare..why would a healthy person be penalized with a 100% tax increase (see EU) when he doesn't need healthcare ?


    I wasn't talking about the hospitals I was talking about the law in general: what are the rights and obligations of a mum-to-be that is a working woman as well? 

    Regarding migrants, the media in W Europe and I see that USofA is no better at this has a habit of villifying isolated cases or worse, presenting certain cases involving maigrants in such a way as to distract the public's attention from major questions that are about to be asked (or were already started to).
    Of course, in most of these cases, the media does not do a thourough journalistic investigation it rather prefers to stick to the superficial view.

    Regarding the so-called penalising taxes, well, a person that is healthy now would be healthy until death? And anyway, there's private healtchare at bumper prices, naturally. So, in the absence of a national health system, everyone must have a rip-off private healtchare insurance (or face the consequences). Does this not equates to a penalty tax?


    The infinite is in the finite of every instant. (Zen)
  •  12-10-2007, 05:58 PM 69284 in reply to 69255

    Re: Romanian puts face on immigrant care issues

    TheAlien:

    True, but then again, why hospitals change the name of a pack of Kleenex, and call it some weird name "cleaning tissues bla bla bla", and charge for it $20, when the cost is 25c?!?!

    We should look at some bigger problems than the immigrants abusing the system. And when those are solved, then we should come back and take care of those immigrants.

    You're bringing up a good point..but that's a systemic issue needing reform and resources..adding illegals into the equation can only stress even more a healtcare system already stretched beyond repair.

  •  12-10-2007, 06:05 PM 69286 in reply to 69277

    Re: Romanian puts face on immigrant care issues

    Dell:

    Regarding the so-called penalising taxes, well, a person that is healthy now would be healthy until death? And anyway, there's private healtchare at bumper prices, naturally. So, in the absence of a national health system, everyone must have a rip-off private healtchare insurance (or face the consequences). Does this not equates to a penalty tax?

    Dell, I don't have a good answer to this question..I guess someone would need to run the numbers and evaluate the balance sheets. As for myself, it's hard to justify paying twice the taxes for 20, 30, 40 years thinking that someday I MAY GET SICK and need an ER. It's really a ripoff just like life insurance and pharmaceutical industies, aleopathic medicine...while the idea behind them is good, the execution looks more like the result of a magic lamp than a business case

  •  12-11-2007, 04:34 AM 69299 in reply to 69286

    Re: Romanian puts face on immigrant care issues

    I think that there are services that will always be too expensive for the majority to use them pay-as-you-go style. Medical care is one of these dervices. Therefore it makes sense to have insurance for it/these. What's not alright though is the unjustified, rip-off price of the insurance.

    Illegal immigrants - we don't want them, we want them as legal migrants.
    BUT: many of these illegal immigrants are classified as such due to systemic failures and not because they are actually bound to illegal and to abuse 
    the system.
    The mass-media shows complete contempt towards the real issue as the "illegal" immigrants' cases should not be treated as one generic issue but each 
    should be analysed individually. 
    But again it's easier to be superficial and reach the profit margins rather than be correct and risk not to reach those margins.

    The infinite is in the finite of every instant. (Zen)
  •  12-11-2007, 07:16 AM 69301 in reply to 69299

    Re: Romanian puts face on immigrant care issues

    Dell:
    But again it's easier to be superficial and reach the profit margins rather than be correct and risk not to reach those margins.

    Let's leave personal bias aside for a moment and try to look at the whole thing from a different angle.Besides the image of a lawlessness system the lack of border control and lax immigration policies would project on the US there are economic implication to allowing illegals to remain in the country:

    -Background check - It's almost impossible and/or extremely expensive to verify every numnut healt record trying to circumvent the system. considering the level of corruption in the countries of origin of most immigrants it's almost impossible to get a decent FBI, health or penal record.

    -Economic cost - Who's going to pony up the funding to process/document all these people in the US? Added taxes on the US Citizens and residents which some have waited many years to be admitted into US legally ? Health care ? It's stupid.

    - Security - Would you wanna have a bunch of undocumented hungry illegals (gypsies, black, balcanics, arabs and alike) running around in your neighborhood ? Going to school with your children ?

    - Moral, ethical implications - Why would anyone wait 2-10 years to enter US legally when they can cross the borders (mexico, canada) and play the syste?

    How does Germany, Switzerland, France, Luxembourg, Monaco, England deal with illegals ?

    Lt's

    Let's

     

  •  12-11-2007, 09:37 AM 69306 in reply to 69301

    Re: Romanian puts face on immigrant care issues

    All the points presented have been around for a very long time, though it seems that nobody really wants to process and/or look for information.

    Let's take them one by one:

    1. Background Check

    People that have lived in the U.S. for many many years, does it really matter a background check from their birth country? And as far as the health goes, that it's checked here by US doctors in offices that the CIS likes.

    2. Economic cost

    I already said that it's proven that the economic impact that the immigrants bring, is a positive one. Do a Google search on "Immigrant, good or bad" and read some of the materials that come up.
    Who will pay for their processing? THEY will pay for their processing. A fine will be imposed (it can be up to $5,000 per person), which is more than enough to process one single case. This fine is on top of the regular fees (which are huge).
    It's not stupid at all. US would not be the greatest super-power if it wasn't for the immigrants and the immigration polices that had in the last 200 years. Why isn't Australia or Canada like US?

    3. Security

    For sure I wouldn't want to have some undocumented ppl living around. I would much rather have all of them here legally so we know who they are.

    4. Moral, ethical

    This is so over-heard. Why would anyone wait? Maybe the question is why would someone risk their life crossing the border illegally and then living in fear that they can be caught at any time. Living w/o the possibility of building a real life, as anything they do could disappear in a moment. Why would they cross illegally to wait 10 years that MAYBE one day the Goverment will pass a law allowing them to be legal. That's stupid. But ppl do it because they fight for a better life.

    Instead of asking this question, a better one is WHY do you have to wait 2-10 years to process some papers? I mean, ok, for those cases where there is a limitation on the number of immigrant visa, it's understandable (to a degree), but for regular papers, why do you have to wait so long? If there is this demand why isn't the service changed accordingly? The taxes have been raised. A bigger infrastructure could be created. More ppl hired. New building. New computers. Etc. etc. What's so hard about this? These are new jobs. Or is it a way to reduce immigrantion?


    The only real security in life is to be very good at what you do.
  •  12-11-2007, 02:19 PM 69330 in reply to 69306

    Re: Romanian puts face on immigrant care issues

    I'm afraid we'll need to agree to disagree Smile

    A few years ago I had happen to run into a pretty detailed report on NAFTA, another big "innovation" with pretty catastrophic consequences for american economy...the masses bought into Ricardo's comparative advantage theory without any regard for its social impact on all participants.

    I hope that immigration doesn't become another token for Republican's take on wealth creation bs.

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